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404 East 4500 South, Suite B-22, Murray, Utah 84107-2995


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Rob Pramann, PhD, ABPP, TEP

Rob is pleased to announce the training schedule for 2022. See the sections below for an overview of this training, information about the approach, about training in psychodrama, about the director/trainer, Rob Pramann, and directions for those from out of town.

Overview of this Training . . .

2022 Series: Advanced Training in Psychodrama Basics

Feb. 12 Happening Here and Now!
Mar. 12 Psychodrama Short and Simple: Role Reversal and the Auxiliary
Apr. 23 Touching the Heart: Developing Deep Empathy Directly
May 21 Touching (or Being Touched by) the Divine

2022 Series: Series: Advanced Training in Psychodrama Basics

Aug. 6 Starting and Stopping, How to
Sept. 24 Critical Group Connections
Oct. 25 Standing Back to See Up Close
Nov. 12 Directing Plain and Simple and ….

The Saturday Schedule...

9:00 am - *Breakfast, Collaboration & Late Registration
9:30 am - 4:30 pm The Workshop
12:30 pm *One Hour (approximately) Lunch

* Please plan oncoming for Beakfast and Lunch so we can eat together! (Pandemic prorocols will be in place) Two important goals are achieved by the supplied breakfast and lunch. Working, eating, and engaging in informal and unstructured time together enhances group development and the potent group healing factor, cohesion. Experiencing and understanding the group’s sociometry is thereby supported and facilitated. A second reason is economical; providing meals is less expensive for participants. Given the common expectation that meals are not part of the training, credit is not granted for these activities despite their value as part of the training.


Saturdays -- $130.00 a session, $475.00 per semester (Spring or Fall), $920.00 for the year. Discounts of 5% for registration received 30 days or more in advance. $50.00 per session for students (letter documenting student status required from school official). Bring a friend: they are free for their first session. Enrollment for a year's series (Spring and Fall) is encouraged but sessions can be taken individually. Cancellation Policy: because of the small and limited group size, no refunds are available for cancellations or no-shows. Click here for a registration form.

Who Should Attend

Anyone who desires to increase their understanding of themselves and human nature more profoundly to enhance their daily life and professional performance. Because J. L. Moreno, the originator of the method, was himself a psychiatrist and developed the method in his private sanitarium with psychiatric patients the method is of interest to mental health professionals (Alcohol & Substance Abuse Counselors, Clinical Mental Health Counselors, Marriage and Family Therapists, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Social Workers, and graduate students in any of the mental health professions). However, Moreno envisioned his method as applicable to the whole of humankind and he invited anyone interested in his method to train and use it.

Recently, lawyers have begun regularly attending trainings, having developed unique and creative ways of using psychodrama in their profession. Attorneys find psychodrama beneficial to enhance their creativity; to increase self-awareness, including acknowledgment of one’s feelings in the moment, especially anxiety, in order to meaningfully engage and establish rapport with jury members, witnesses, and judges; to develop their proficiency at role reversal (to put themselves in the place of the other individuals in the courtroom in order to get a sense of what may be going on that cannot be seen from the outside); and as a method for event reenactment in order to understand their clients and the events which are at the center of their legal problems.

If you are in psychotherapy it is quite important that you discuss with your therapist possible attendance at a psychodrama workshop and have your therapist’s approval of your participation.

Continuing Education Units

CEUs meet Utah DOPL/licensure requirements for Psychologists, Clinical Mental Health Counselors, and Substance Use Disorder Counselors. CEUs have been approved for Social Workers through the Utah Chapter of the NASW. Hours may be counted toward requirements for certification in Psychodrama. A Saturday session is 6 training hours, a semester is 24 training hours and and if all are taken together a total of 48+ hours can be accumulated in one year. If a training session exceeds the anticipated number of hours that amount will be credited if allowed by the CEU credit authorizing body.

Additional Details About this Training . . .

Previous training in psychodrama is not required. These sessions are for anyone from first time attendee to master trainer. They are designed to systematically and sequentially introduce one to the method, yet all sessions are designed to stand alone so that attendance at all sessions is not required.

Goals: Participants will develop personal and professional skills for understanding oneself and others as individuals and in relationship to others; confidence and facility in using role playing intervention in all of its many applications; and skills in group psychotherapy, psychodrama, and sociometry as directors and auxiliaries. All sessions will include at least one hour directly related to ethical issues. (All references cited are listed at the end of all the descriptions.)

Specific learning objectives for each session and this workshop series as a whole and citations for 2022:

Participants will be able to...

  1. Develop proficiency in carefully attending to the client’s actual process rather than asking the client to accommodate their process to a method (Cain, 2016; Norcross, 2011; Pramann, 2017);
  2. Identify and develop proficiency with psychodramatic and sociodramatic techniques, methods and interventions that can be readily applied in practice with individuals, couples, families, and groups (Blatner, 2009; Compernolle, 1981; Fowler, 1994, Garcia, 2010; Hollander & Craig, 2013, Kipper, 2003, 2005, Ragsdale, Cox, Finn, & Eisler, 1996);
  3. Describe and explain the use of the five instruments of psychodrama, stage, subject (protagonist), director, therapeutic aides (auxiliary egos), and audience (Hirschfeld & McVea, 1998, Kipper, 2003); enactors in sociodrama (Garcia, 2010), and the three phases of a psychodramatic session, the warm up, the action, and the sharing (Kipper, 2005), and the fourth training phase: the processing (Kellermann, 1992a).
  4. Assess the interpersonal connections between individuals and subgroups within a larger group for the purpose of improving interpersonal and group dynamics and use interventions to address them (applying and using sociometry) (Hale, 2009);
  5. Participate in different psychodramatic/sociodramatic sessions as audience/group member, auxiliary ego, protagonist, enactor, or director;
  6. Use psychodramatic and sociodramatic techniques proficiently and spontaneously in ways that are adequate, creative, and novel;
  7. Practice psychodramatic techniques in structured exercises in dyads, small groups, and the group as a whole as the participant is ready and able (Kellermann, 1992a); and
  8. Plan how to use psychodramatic methods and interventions in an ethical and professional manner in the participant's own setting or for an intended application (Kellermann, 1999).

Additional Summaries of and Learning Objectives for the particular training sessions in 2022:

2022 Training Series: Advanced Training in Psychodrama Basics The psychodrama method pays careful and intimate attention to interpersonal relations and private worlds. “The Hallmark benefit of psychodrama . . . is that it facilitates the client’s actual process rather than asking the client to accommodate their process to a method, as is common with many current evidence-based treatments” (Kym Couture, LCSW, personal communication, November 13, 2017).

February 12– “Happening Here and Now!” [Introduction to Psychodrama] This session will warm up participants to each other and the approach, demonstrate a variety of interventions that can be readily learned and used, and culminate in a psychodrama.

March 12 “Psychodrama Short and Simple: Role Reversal and the Auxiliary” [Psychodramatic Roles: The Auxiliary Ego and Role Playing] This session will focus on developing skills at role playing, role reversing, and playing auxiliary ego roles, as well as culminating in a psychodrama

April 23 “Touching the Heart: Developing Deep Empathy Directly” [Psychodramatic Roles: The Double and Doubling] This session will focus on developing skills at role playing, the auxiliary ego role of double, and on the development of a unique kind of deep empathy. It will culminate in a psychodrama.

May 21 “Touching (or Being Touched by) the Divine” [Bibliodrama and Psychodramatic Encounter with God] This session will focus on Bibliodrama and Psychodramatic Encounter with God. It will include a psychodramatic enactment of both!

August 6 “Starting and Stopping, How to” [Starting and Stopping in Psychodrama: Warming Up and Sharing] This session will focus on the critical role of warming up and arriving at closure (sharing) in psychodrama, give suggestions and demonstrate how to do so, and culminate in a psychodrama.

September 17 “Critical Group Connections” [Exploring Sociometry] This session will demonstrate and examine methods of investigating the interpersonal connections of individuals and groups of all sizes for the purpose of improving interpersonal and group dynamics as developed by J. L. Moreno (Hale, 2009). It will culminate in a psychodrama.

October 15 “Standing Back to See Up Close” [The Process: The Hollander Curve and Psychodramatic Spiral] This session will focus on ways to map the course of a psychodramatic session (Costa, 1987; Hollander, 1969) based on several tools as well as culminating in a psychodrama session that is mapped.

November 12 “Directing Plain and Simple and …. ” [Psychodramatic Roles: The Director and Directing] This session will focus on roles and responsibilities of the psychodrama director, will include a tool for evaluating these (Kellermann, 1992a, 1992b), and will culminate in a psychodrama and use of the tool to evaluate the director’s skill.

References (published literature and research,
some peer-reviewed, about this method and setting)

American Psychological Association. (n.d.) What are telehealth and telepsychology?

Barone, P. T. (2019). Bring the scriptures to life with Bibliodrama. In A. Blatner (Ed.), Action explorations: Using psychodramatic methods in nontherapeutic settings (pp. 265 –85). Seattle, Washington: Parallax Productions.

Blatner, A. (2009). The place of psychodramatic methods and concepts in conventional group and individual therapy. Group: The Journal of the Eastern Group Psychotherapy Society, 33, 309-314.

Buchanan, D. R. & Garcia, A. (n.d.). Psychodrama in individual therapy: Psychodrama a deux. Psychodrama Training Associates.

Cain, D. J. (2016). Towards a research-based integration of optimal practices of humanistic psychotherapies. In D. J. Cain, K. Keenan, & S. Rubin (Eds.), Humanistic psychotherapies: Handbook of research and practice (pp. 485 – 535). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Carvalho, E. R. (1986). Christian reconciliation: A psychodramatic contribution. Journal of Psychology & Christianity, 5, 5-10.

Compernolle, T. (1981). J. L. Moreno: an unrecognized pioneer of family therapy. Family Process, 20, 331-335.

Condon, L. (2007). Bibliodrama: Exploring the written word through action. In A. Blatner, (with D. J. Weiner), (Ed.) Interactive and improvisational drama: Varieties of applied theater and performance (pp. 13 – 22). New York: iUniverse.

Costa, J. (1987). The use of the psychodramatic spiral in recording the process of a psychodrama. Journal of the British Psychodrama Association, 4, 19-22.

Farnsworth, J. (2011). Psychodrama at distance: Effective supervision using communication technologies. Australian & New Zealand Psychodrama Association Journal, 20, 50-59.

Giacomucci, S. (2021). Social work, sociometry, and psychodrama: Experiential approaches for group therapists, community leaders, and social workers. Springer

Hale, A. E. (1981). Conducting clinical sociometric explorations: A manual for psychodramatists and
. Royal.

Hale, A. E. (2009). Moreno’s sociometry: Exploring interpersonal connection. Group: The Journal of the Eastern Group Psychotherapy Society, 33, 347-358.

Hirschfeld, B. & McVea, C. (1998). “A cast of thousands”: working with the five instruments of psychodrama in the therapeutic relationship. Australian & New Zealand Psychodrama Association Journal, 7, 51-60.

Hollander, C. E. (1969). A process for psychodrama training: The Hollander psychodrama curve. The International Journal for Action Methods: Psychodrama, Skill Training, and Role Playing, 54, 147-57.

Kellermann, P. F. (1992a). Processing in psychodrama. Journal of Group Psychotherapy, Psychodrama & Sociometry, 45, 63-73.

Kellermann, P. F. (1992b). The psychodramatist. Journal of Group Psychotherapy, Psychodrama & Sociometry, 45, 74-88.

Kellermann, P. F. (1999). Ethical concerns in psychodrama. The British Journal of Psychodrama & Sociometry, 14, 3-19.

Kipper, D. A. (2005). Introduction to the special issue on the treatment of couples and families with psychodrama and action methods: The case of generic psychodrama. Journal of Group Psychotherapy, Psychodrama & Sociometry, 58, 51-54.

Kipper, D. A. & Hundal, J. (2003). A survey of clinical reports on the application of psychodrama. Journal of Group Psychotherapy, Psychodrama & Sociometry, 55, 141-157.

Moreno, J. L. (1946). Psychodrama and therapeutic motion pictures. In: J. L. Moreno, (Ed), Psychodrama, Vol. 1 (pp. 385-420). Beacon, NY: Beacon House (Reprinted from “Psychodrama and therapeutic motion pictures,” 1945, Sociometry, 7, 230-244 and 1946, Psychodrama Monographs, No. 11. Psychodramatic Institute)

Nolte, J., Smallwood, C., & Weistart, J. (2008). Role reversal with God. In Nolte, J. (Ed.), The Psychodrama Papers (pp.163-172). Encounter Publications. (Reprinted from “Role reversal with God,” 1975, Group Psychotherapy & Psychodrama, 28, 70-76

Norcross, J. C. (Ed.), (2011). Psychotherapy relationships that work: Evidence-based responsiveness (2nd ed.).New York: Oxford University Press.

Pappas, S. (2020). What do we really know about kids and screens? Monitor on Psychology, 51(3), 42-48.

Pitzele, P. (1995). Our father’s wells: A personal encounter with the myths of Genesis. HarperCollins.

Pitzele, P. A. (1998). Scripture windows: Toward a practice of bibliodrama. Torah Aura.

Pramann, R. (May, 2017). Psychodrama as a potent evidence-based group psychotherapy. Paper presented at the meeting of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama, “Navigating Waves of Change: Discovering and Celebrating our Hidden Treasures,” Clearwater, Florida.

About the Approach . . .

Psychodrama, sociometry and group psychotherapy are methods developed by J. L. Moreno whose interests in the theater, existential philosophy, and psychiatry developed into this unique approach to the problems of humanity. He envisioned his approach as a way to change the whole of mankind, including the social order, but his ideas were accepted most readily by mental health professionals. Nevertheless, they continue to have wide interest and application. Moreno's approach forms a coherent system for understanding people as individuals, individuals in relationship, and a society as a whole. His methods are of interest to professionals from a wide variety of psychotherapeutic perspectives and lay persons without theoretical interests.

Most basically psychodrama is a mode of communication, one which is powerful and effective. If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is the value of a motion picture reenactment of what happened? This method makes clear the limitations of a purely verbal approach. It engages individuals and groups on multiple levels through a combination of channels: visual, auditory, kinesthetic, intuitive, intellectual, emotional, relational, actional/behavioral, etc.

Psychodrama emphasizes spontaneity and creativity in the here and now and looks at events through the eyes of the person who experienced it. The director or leader of the group directs or works with the protagonist or group member whose issue is most in common with those of the rest of the group. The director uses auxiliaries, supporting cast/group members who assist in the enactment that helps the protagonist understand, explore, and resolve their concern and indirectly those of the group as well. "Every man the therapist of every other man; every group the therapist of every other group." Though psychodrama often initially appears to be magical it is a systematic method that can be learned.

The Psychodramatic approach enables the individual and group to explore events, concerns, or issues, both problematic and fulfilling, in the past, present, or future. The focus may include interpersonal events or intrapersonal ones such as dreams, hallucinations, or internal conflicts. It can function to provide education, support, insight, a test of reality or as a spur to creativity or personal growth.

Personally, it can provide an opportunity to better oneself and one’s relationships, to identify and resolve one’s emotional hang-ups and baggage which could interfere with relationships with others, to enhance and increase one’s spontaneity and creativity, and to develop one’s proficiency in various life or professional roles. Clinically, it can play an important role in prevention, diagnosis, treatment, and relapse prevention. As an approach it uniquely addresses the importance of warming up to an issue or action, setting the scene, choosing roles, and being flexible and creative.

For articles & more information about the approach, including the Benefits, Limitations, and Potential Harm in Psychodrama, Empirical Psychodrama Research References, go to

About the Training in Psychodrama . . .

The mission of this program is to teach and train others in the methods, theories and philosophy of J. L Moreno, MD, the originator of Psychodrama, Sociometry, Role Training and Sociodrama. Recognizing that these methods have broad applications beyond their most common function as a form of psychotherapy, the CCCU Training in Psychodrama maintains an open-admissions policy, welcoming to its workshops folks of all occupations and professions. In addition to members of the mental health professions and counselors of all kinds, CCCU Training has included among its students and trainees lawyers, teachers, ministers, engineers, homemakers, and plumbers.

Psychodrama and related methods are taught almost exclusively in an experiential format. They require highly complex skills, recognizing the variety of ways protagonists can be helped in the telling of their story. The method makes use of group dynamics and what is happening in the here and now; it is taught accordingly.

The training is non-linear, that is the same session can serve as an introduction to the novice and a completion for the student pursuing the lengthy certification process. Experienced trainees help the newer ones learn the method and in turn learn through teaching. True competence comes only with adequate training and experience including supervised practice over time.

Workshops consist of a series of psychodramas in which the participants experience the roles of protagonist, auxiliary ego, director, and observing group member as they are ready. Each session is reviewed ("processed") to identify and discuss technical elements. Training exercises may be used to prepare participants for the different roles.

Workshops may address issues such as basic skills development, strategies of directing, catharsis, rage, guilt, fear, death, God, or intra-group issues to name a few. Ultimately the activities in any workshop will depend on the desires and needs of the group. The training is open to persons with both personal and professional interests in learning the method.

About the Director . . .

Rob Pramann, PhD, ABPP, TEP is the Director of Christian Counseling Centers of Utah's Training in Psychodrama. He was Board Certified as a “Certified Practitioner” in 1997, and a “Trainer, Educator and Practitioner” in 2001 by the American Board of Examiners in Psychodrama, Sociometry and Group Psychotherapy, and in “Group Psychology” in 2015 by the American Board of Professional Psychology. Rob has trained with a number of recognized trainers in psychodrama, first generation students of J. L. Moreno (1889 - 1974), the originator of the method. He is a graduate of the Psychodrama Institute of New Haven, where he studied under Eugene Eliasoph, ACSW, TEP, to complete his training for certification as a Practitioner of Psychodrama (CP). Following that he trained under John Nolte, PhD, TEP, to complete requirements for certification as a Trainer, Educator and Practitioner (TEP) of Psychodrama. He was awarded "fellow" status by the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama (ASGPP) in April, 2010, served as an Executive Editor of the Journal of Psychodrama, Sociometry, and Group Psychotherapy in 2010 through 2020, and in 2020 joined and now serves as the Co-chair, of the ASGPP Research Committee. He was the 2020/2021 recipient of the ASGPP's David A. Kipper Scholar's Award. He has actively pursued training since 1988 because of what the approach has given him both personally and professionally and he has functioned in a number of informal and formal training roles.

Rob's practice of psychodrama is varied and extensive. It includes presentations at local, national, and international conferences, providing supervision and training in psychodrama, sociometry and group psychotherapy to a variety of lay and professional groups, as well as applying it to his ongoing work with groups, families, couples, and individuals. He has directed outpatient groups and inpatient drug and alcohol groups. Also, he has applied the approach for the purposes of staff team building and supervision, resolving intra-organizational conflict, in the context of spiritual retreats and small groups for spiritual development and the exploration of Bible narratives (“Bibliodrama"), and with attorneys and their clients for the purpose of trial preparation. In addition, he has engaged in the related community building adaptation of psychodrama with Salt City Playback Theatre Company. Finally, he has taught the method in graduate and undergraduate classes. His training experience with the approach includes work with high school and junior high school students, intellectually challenged persons, psychiatric inpatients, psychiatric day treatment patients, chronic psychiatric outpatients, sex offender outpatients, and autistic outpatients.

Rob is also available to conduct private sessions for individuals, families, couples, work groups, organizations, churches, etc. for purposes of conflict resolution, personal or professional development and training, addressing individual or group problems and issues, or as an introduction to or demonstration of the method. He may be contacted at (801) 268-1564 x3.

Directions . . .

Session are currently being conducted at Dual Pixel, 3007 W Temple, Suite L, Salt Lake City, UT 84115, which is 13 minutes from the Salt Lake City airport just off I-15. (Should it become necessary [because of COVID – 19 or any other reason] sessions will be conducted by video conferencing at The area is easy to navigate. All streets and addresses are coordinated in terms of how far east, west, north, and south they are from the LDS Temple in downtown Salt Lake City. There are several shuttle companies that service the airport and nearby accommodations for those who may need to stay overnight.

















































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